Former South Carolina Gov. Robert McNair says he tried to do all he could to smooth the integration process and relationship between the races as leader of the state during the height of the civil rights movement.

McNair said his attempts to quell the rising tide of unrest in Orangeburg ''unfortunately'' failed and this failure would eventually lead to the notorious night of Feb. 8, 1968.

It was on that night that highway patrolmen opened fire on a civil rights protest at South Carolina State University, killing three students and wounding 27 others.

The event today is known as the Orangeburg Massacre.

"It was most unfortunate," McNair said during a January interview on the set of the S.C. ETV as part of the network's initial showing of its weekly magazine series, ''The Big Picture." "We have all said it was the most regrettable thing we have ever had happen in South Carolina."

McNair, a Democrat who served as governor of South Carolina from 1965-1971 and has talked little about what happened in Orangeburg on that chilly February night, spoke candidly about the events surrounding the civil unrest with Andrew Gobeil, managing editor and host of The Big Picture.

It is considered one of the most extensive television interviews McNair has ever given on the Orangeburg Massacre, an event that has not been without controversy about what actually occurred that night.

The second hour of the two-hour show begins at 7:30 p.m. Thursday, March 29.

McNair reflects

McNair recalled assuming the reins of the governorship during a ''changing time'' when the desegregation of schools was occurring throughout the country and politics often got involved in the decision-making process.

"It was a critical period of time," McNair recalled, noting it was an era of division with some groups and political leaders wanting to maintain the status quo and others wanting to move forward with improving race relations. "I was sitting in the position where things had to happen and things had to be done."

And things did happen, McNair said.

South Carolina leaders were complying with the National Voting Rights Act of 1965 and saw Harvey Gantt become the first black American to be admitted to Clemson University.

"We began to comply without court orders from various places," McNair said.

And then the Orangeburg incident arose.

"Orangeburg was really a problem because there was a lack of good relationships between the community and the college," McNair said. "They would never annex the college into the city but yet they wanted to maintain some control over it and the students in the college were not welcome in the town."

McNair said prior to the Orangeburg Massacre, there were boycotts at S.C. State College about the conditions of the school and the faculty.

"They wanted to fire the president," McNair recalled. "They would demand and I told them I could not react to demands but if you made a request, I will listen to it."

Eventually, the president was put on a leave of absence and a bond issuance was given to build three new buildings. "We thought we had created a better atmosphere and a better relationship on the campus.''

It was at this time that students at S.C. State were embarking on a movement to desegregate All-Star Bowling Lanes on Russell Street, a business owned by Harry Floyd.

"We did not know anything about it," McNair said, noting the controversy surrounding the bowling alley. "My first knowledge and reaction of the bowling alley was getting a call one night (from the Orangeburg chief of police)."

McNair said he was informed of a ''crisis'' in Orangeburg.

McNair said he immediately contacted U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark to bring action under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to either close the bowling alley or make it comply with the law.

"He was delaying, and delaying and delaying ... so we closed the bowling alley," McNair said.

Later, owner Floyd would reopen the alley as a private membership club.

"I did not realize it opened back up," McNair said. "The kids went back and he would not let them in. They had a real frakas that night and, of course, I ordered SLED to close it, pad lock it and keep it closed."

Following the closure of the bowling alley, McNair said he received word there were concerns about more trouble, so he urged a curfew.

McNair sent about 250 National Guard troops to Orangeburg to join more than 50 troopers and 25 other agents in an effort to keep the peace.

"We did not want any outsiders to get on campus," he said.

McNair said traffic was also routed away from campus because of reports that bricks and rocks were being thrown at passing cars.

And then, McNair said, there begin confusion and some of the questions.

"There was a small group and this is where I get into difficulty ... SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Conference) had come in, which was then making a move to battle the NAACP for a leadership role," McNair said, noting later in the interview that both he and the NAACP leaders had met before the shooting to discuss the nature of the situation and whether the curfew could be lifted.

"SNCC ... had a small group that would not comply with all the regulations and curfews and things like that."

McNair said he was receiving reports of fires and vandalism throughout the city.

"This is all coming to me from hearsay," he said, explaining that some reports had a fire truck crew being fired upon. "Whether that is true or not, I don't know."

McNair said in a short time, the Orangeburg chief of police called him again and told him about a police officer getting hit.

The officers also stated later they believed they were receiving small arms fire during the incident. However, evidence that they were being fired upon later turned up inconclusive.

"There is a controversy on what triggered it and what happened after that," McNair said. "We closed the school then and did everything we could to mediate with Orangeburg."

After the incident, McNair said the state ordered an investigation.

"I did not think we could investigate ourselves with any credibility, so I called on the Justice Department to conduct a thorough and complete investigation, which they did but they would not release it."

Eventually, nine highway patrolmen were tried and acquitted by a biracial jury.

"It was a very unfortunate and tragic incident," McNair said. "I'm not sure we'll ever really know what triggered it (Orangeburg)."

Almost 40 years later, controversy still remains.

It is a controversy, McNair said, that may never get resolved.

"Since there has been a controversy, I have referred people to the Justice Department report and to the court trial," he said.

Former Gov. Richard Riley (1979-1987), who was in the Senate at the time, thanked McNair for his service.

"It is hard for us to describe the tenseness of the situation," Riley said. "But the state of South Carolina was lucky to have such a fair-minded, careful leader in Bob McNair during those difficult times."

ETV's Gobeil reflects

Gobeil, who was the prime interviewer of McNair, said there was no rehearsed script before the showing and that McNair was open to appearing on the program.

From his willingness to appear on the program to his describing the events that happened, Gobeil said his impressions of McNair are as a ''good man who tried to do the right thing."

"In sitting next to him it was interesting in that I was able to pick up on some nonverbal cues," he said. "I felt he became somewhat emotional. There was a hitch in his voice at one point."

Gobeil said he was aware McNair has not spoken publically about the Orangeburg Massacre very often, so when the issue of race relations arose, it was a no-brainer to make sure all the issues were on the table.

"I felt like he was candid," Gobeil said. "I think the only question now is his legacy."

And the Orangeburg Massacre will ''most definitely'' be a part of his legacy.

"I have been thoroughly impressed with Gov. McNair," Gobeil said.

He also noted how McNair seemed to be complimentary of the NAACP, which was in the forefront of leading the protests at the time.

"It would have been easy to come in and be a race baiter and roll over and let the circumstances dictate themselves," Gobeil said, explaining how during the time the former governor was proactive in calling for civil rights legislation.

The FBI announced in the latter part of February that it is poised to take another look at the Orangeburg Massacre to ensure it was properly reviewed.

Gobeil said this issue was not discussed during the January interview as the news developed about a month and a half after the interview.

However, Gobeil said the former governor ''was upset with what happened and wants the truth to come out."

While the McNair television interview is believed to be the first time he has discussed the massacre on television, much of the former governor's thoughts were compiled in a book published in July 2006.

Newsman Philip Grose, a staff member when McNair was governor, wrote a biography, "South Carolina at the Brink: Robert McNair and the Politics of Civil Rights."

In the book, McNair devotes two of its 12 chapters to the Orangeburg Massacre, with the events leading up to and the aftermath of the massacre.

The chapters include details about how the governor tried to handle the mounting crisis. It includes details about what McNair knows of the events and his assessments then and now.

Grose at the time touted the work as McNair's "strongest public statement to date on the Orangeburg shootings."

In it, McNair calls the killings of Henry Smith, Samuel Hammond and Delano Middleton by troopers "one of the most tragic moments in our state's modern history."

'The Big Picture'

McNair's television comments came during the initial two-hour showing of the ETV program where he joined four other former state governors -- James Edwards, Richard Riley, David Beasley, and James Hodges -- to discuss everything from education and race relations to job opportunities in the Palmetto State.

The first hour of the two-hour show aired March 22. During the show, the governors shared some lighter moments as well.

Beyond its initial showing, "The Big Picture" will continue Thursday, April 5, in a half-hour run time.

Each week's program will be rebroadcast the following Saturday at 7:30 p.m. and Sunday at 1 p.m.

Each Friday morning following the broadcast of The Big Picture, Gobeil will be in ETV Radio's studios, from 9 a.m. to 10 a.m., hosting a companion show that will offer insights into what South Carolinians saw the night before.

The Big Picture on the Radio will feature a roster of experts and pundits and will air on NPR news stations.

T&D Staff Writer Gene Zaleski can be reached by e-mail at gzaleski@timesanddemocrat.com or by phone at 803-533-5551. Discuss this and other stories at TheTandD.com.

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